Doris La Frenais

Doris La Frenais’ riveting accounts of her psychedelic adventures from the 1960s to today. This week, we delve into the remarkable life of Doris La Frenais, a Parisian fashion designer turned spiritual seeker and sonic science somatic healer. Doris recounts her first psychedelic encounter in the 1970s, mistakenly ingesting angel dust at a party in Los Angeles, and then hitchhiking to a hippie commune where she took mushrooms on a moonlit beach. This series of events led Doris to realize that the life she had built in Paris no longer aligned with her spiritual path, and that she must relinquish her lavish lifestyle in pursuit of deeper healing and fulfillment. Four months later, she was living in Los Angeles with her son. Over the next fifty years, her journey would take many unexpected turns, from working with Robert Margouleff helping to produce artists like Stevie Wonder and Devo to navigating a tumultuous path of addiction and recovery. Through candid storytelling, Doris shares riveting accounts of her psychedelic adventures, from ayahuasca ceremonies in the Amazonian rainforest to encounters with Native American peyote rituals, and muses on the many adventures still to come.

Doris La Frenais was a fashion designer in the fast paced drug fueled Ye Ye music scene in Paris, hanging out with the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Johnny Hallyday and Sylvie Vartan. She took her first steps in the visual arts when Salvador Dali’s manager took a liking to her sketches and encouraged her to paint.After a life changing experience, she moved to Los Angeles where she studied sound engineering and worked with Robert Margouleff, helping to produce artists such as Stevie Wonder, Oingo Boingo, Devo while continuing to paint. After years of struggling with various addictions, her path toward liberation ultimately led her to India, where she immersed herself in yogic practices and spiritual awareness. She taught Kundalini yoga for 11 years and is currently training to play the frame drum and to become a sonic science somatic healer.

Episode Transcript

Doris La Frenais

This Scottish guy with a red beard, stopped his Karmann Ghia and I got in and he said, ‘Where are you going?’ I said, ‘Well, where are you going?’ And he said, ‘Oh I live in a commune outside of LA’.  And I said, ‘Oh my God, I’ve never been to a commune. Can I go with you?’  And so, I wound up in this commune and we went down to the beach. I had my first mushroom experience. And the awakening I had was so profound it showed that I could not live in Paris anymore. And I had an incredible life. I was part of the Johnny Hallyday, Sylvie Vartan,  house in the country, skiing in the winter, St Tropez all summer. And four months later I was in L.A. with my son. So that was my first. That was a real shift.

Jon Reiss

Welcome to Plantscendence – the podcast where we talk to people about their most significant psychedelic experiences, and how those experiences profoundly changed their lives. I’m Jon Reiss.

Today’s guest is Doris La Frenais who along with her husband Ian, is a dear friend who I’ve known for some time, and get to play Rummikub with on a regular basis. 

Doris has had quite an incredible life that always amazes me the more I hear about it. She was a fashion designer in the fast- paced drug fueled Yé-Yé music scene in Paris in the 60s and 70s, hanging out with the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. She took her first steps in the visual arts when Salvador Dali’s manager took a liking to her sketches and encouraged her to paint.

After a life changing experience, she moved to Los Angeles where she studied sound engineering helping to produce artists such as Stevie Wonder and Devo while continuing to paint. After years of struggling with various addictions, her path toward liberation ultimately led her to India, where she immersed herself in yogic practices and spiritual awareness. She taught Kundalini yoga for 11 years and is currently training to become a sonic science somatic healer.

Jon Reiss

Really happy to have you, Doris, finally, to get you to agree to let me interview you. And I know you, I think through our crossing spiritual paths is how we first met. 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, through Sadhguru. 

Jon Reiss

Yeah, through Sadhguru. And you’re a spiritual seeker. You’re also an incredible artist and a killer Rummikub player, right? 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah. 

Jon Reiss

Am I not right?

Doris La Frenais

That’s right. 

Jon Reiss

And you’re in the process of writing your biography. 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, 

Jon Reiss

Or autobiography. 

Doris La Frenais

And I’m also studying to be a sonic science somatic frequency healer. That’s my big thing right now, for the last two years, well three years since COVID. 

Jon Reiss

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

So, I have many fries in my pan or whatever you say it is. 

Jon Reiss

You’ve got a lot of pots going on.

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, that’s it. Yeah. 

Jon Reiss

And you just went to Egypt as part of your journey, your sonic healing journey. 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 

Jon Reiss

So, we’re talking about psychedelics. Do you remember your first psychedelic experience? 

Doris La Frenais 

Yeah, it was when I actually was around 30 years old and I was living in Paris and I was a dress designer and I decided to come to L.A. because I was going to incorporate some of the Parisian styles with the 20s, and they were selling a lot of the 20s clothes at the time in America.

And you were getting them by the pound, not even by the piece. So, I came to L.A. and New York, and when I got to L.A., I went to a party and they gave me a joint and I had a puff and I was like, I’d smoked grass. I thought it was grass, but it wound up being angel dust.

So, I became catatonic, I couldn’t move. I had to go to bed at this person’s house that I didn’t I didn’t know anybody at the party except the person that brought me and the person that brought me said, ‘We have to leave.’ And the woman said, ‘Don’t worry, I’ll drive her home. She can’t walk or talk.’ And I didn’t know what they given me.

I thought it was pot. It was angel dust. It was elephant tranquilizer. 

Jon Reiss

Right. 

Doris La Frenais 

So, at four, I kind of was able to get out of the house and I went up on Mulholland to hitchhike a ride home and- 

Jon Reiss

What year is this again? 

Doris La Frenais

This was when I was in my thirties, so I’m now eighty. So that was fifty years ago.

Jon Reiss

Which is the 70’s. 

Doris La Frenais 

Yeah, seventies and I, this Scottish guy with a red beard, stopped his Karmann Ghia and I got in and he said, ‘Where are you going?’ I said, ‘Well, where are you going?’ And I had to hold on to the door with the belt of the Karmann Ghia. Yeah, this is a real hippie. And he said, ‘I live in a commune outside of LA.’

And I said, ‘Oh my God, I’ve never been to a commune’. And I was wearing a Christian Dior suit with platinum watch with diamonds and just, you know, Parisian style in those days. And I said, ‘I’ve never been to a commune. Can I go with you?’ And he said, ‘Yeah, sure.’ And so, he took me, and I wound up staying in this commune.

Now I’d come from Paris, stayed with a French friend of mine in L.A. Now my husband’s calling her ‘where’s my wife?’ And she said, no cell phones in those days, she said ‘she went to a party’, and they called the woman and then they had the police looking for me and nobody could find me in a hippie commune outside of L.A.

Jon Reiss

That’s amazing. Do you remember where in outside L.A it was? 

Doris La Frenais

It was way past Topanga, you know, it was always some hippie commune near a beach. I don’t remember because I was already in an altered state with a drug they’d given me that night. And so, I wound up in this commune and we went down to the beach, and we took- I had my first mushroom experience and it was so- it was a full moon, and everyone was taking it.

And I thought, you know, I’m just going to go with the flow. And it was unbelievable. And the awakening I had was so profound it showed that I could not live in Paris anymore. And I had an incredible life. I was part of the Johnny Hallyday, Sylvie Vartan, living, you know, house in the country, skiing in the winter St. Tropez all summer.

I mean, it was a hard place to leave, you know, it’s like and so it was showing me that if I needed to be on a spiritual path and I could not continue living in Paris. And so, when I got back to my friend Ren’s house, my French friend, I walked in with an old housecoat somebody had given me barefooted with flowers in my hair, all my jewelry.

I had given everything away, including my Christian Dior outfit, which was a fortune. And I bought a sack of angel dust and flew back to Paris and told my husband, I’m leaving you. And four months later I was in L.A. with my son. And that was that was it. So that was my first. That was a real shift.

Jon Reiss

That sounds pretty profound. 

Doris La Frenais

That’s why I’m here. And thank God that happened. 

Jon Reiss 

You went to this hippie commune, did a bunch of mushrooms, had a spiritual revelation, told you to change your life, and you gave all your jewelry away and all your clothes. 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah. 

Jon Reiss

You gave away your material possessions. 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah. 

Jon Reiss

To the to the commune at the time. And then came back with flowers in your hair, wearing some-

Doris La Frenais

An old housecoat, barefooted with a rope around my waist. 

Jon Reiss

Did you have any, so how did that revelation come to you during the experience?

Doris La Frenais

It was during the mushroom. You know, you’re given many leads about your life, what you should do, what you shouldn’t do. And you know, I’ve done other mushroom trips since that.

I didn’t like the leads and I didn’t do any of them. And I actually the last mushroom trip I did was this year, and I didn’t like the trip at all because I’ve done enough psychedelics where I don’t need the geometric shapes. And my mother, I think my mother’s on the phone with me. I mean, what I had then was so profound. It changed my entire life. I mean, 

Jon Reiss

So how did it just getting back to that experience while you’re having the trip, how did you see that you needed to leave Paris? 

Doris La Frenais

I felt like Mother Mary. I felt like I was an angel and that I had a purpose, that I was here not to be in that French thing, you know, having dinner with Maria Callas and Onassis and Brigitte Bardot. I mean, I was in a whirlwind. Nobody else would have left Paris in my situation, 

Jon Reiss 

You’re living in the highest, best form of a material existence- 

Doris La Frenais

Absolutely. And from before that material existence, I was in a Steinbeck. I lived as poor as anyone could. Steinbeck couldn’t have written it. I was that poor. 

Jon Reiss 

How many years before you were living this Paris lifestyle?

Doris La Frenais

It was pretty- pretty slim before- because I met my husband, the French husband in Madrid, and I got married and I didn’t know who he was. I didn’t know Johnny and Sylvie were. We’d met each other and we were married three months later. That was it. And the minute I had my son, it was over. We were together to give birth to my son.

Jon Reiss

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

And then that was it. But we were still living together. But it was kind of that was our purpose together. 

Jon Reiss

That’s interesting. Like it almost was like, ordained that-

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, well, I met a yogi once and he said that when a soul takes on a physical body, they actually bring together the two energies they need. You know, it’s not an accident when we’re born, it’s all planned according to your karma. 

And it made really sense to me because the way I met my husband, I didn’t speak French at all. He didn’t speak. He spoke English, but it was totally like this crash, you know. I mean, he asked me to marry him the second time he saw me. And then I moved out of New York, and I came to Paris, and we got married three, three months later.

So then once I had Michael, that was our purpose, to be together. 

Jon Reiss 

How long were you then living this life in Paris? 

Doris La Frenais

I was living that life in Paris for about almost eight years. Nine years? 

Jon Reiss

Wow. 

Doris La Frenais

Long enough. 

 Jon Reiss

How old was your son? By the time-

Doris La Frenais

When I left him, my son was four. Yeah. And so, it was a big shift for my son.

It was a big shift for, you know, And, of course, his family hated me in the beginning, but now we’re all friends again. But the thing is, when I first came to L.A., what happened is I became an audio engineer because my husband was a producer, and he was a musician, and he was in his sister’s band and Johnny Hallyday’s band.

He played eight instruments, and he was brilliant. But the thing is, I took the course because I was planning on going back to Paris. After I had my experience here, I thought, okay, I’ll come here, learn what I need to learn, and I might as well get a course in audio engineering so I can be useful in the studio.

So, I took two years at Capitol Records, got my diploma in audio engineering, and- and then I started working with Bob Margouleff, who was Stevie Wonder and Oingo Boingo and Devo’s producers. So, I started getting really heavily into the drug scene and met Timothy Leary, and that’s when I had my first acid trip. 

Jon Reiss 

So, before we move on to your first LSD experience, when you’re on the beach, and I’ll leave it alone because it’s just your first experience, because a lot of people talk about set and setting.

Did you have any intention when you took the mushrooms? Did you- you just took them because you were there having this group experience? 

 Doris La Frenais

 I had no idea what it was going to even do for me. I was just going with the flow, 

Jon Reiss 

Right. 

 Doris La Frenais

And, you know, I just come out of the angel dust experience. I figured I might as well. And so, it was a whole new experience. And I liked the energy because the French were so uptight when I was in this commune was all about peace and love and eating healthy and loving the planet. And none of that was happening in Paris. They were all just snobby assholes. God, I hope none of my French friends hear this.

Jon Reiss

So, do you remember any of the people from the commune?

Doris La Frenais

None except the- the Scottish guy with the orange beard that took me. 

Jon Reiss

Right. But you’ve never seen him since? 

Doris La Frenais

No, I’ve never seen any of the hippies since. 

Jon Reiss

Oh, that’s too bad. 

Doris La Frenais

Because when I came to L.A., I had a whole different kind of life that I started with a music scene. 

Jon Reiss 

Right.

Doris La Frenais

And that took me into the into the abyss. And then Timothy Leary. I didn’t like the acid as much as any other drug. The acid was such a chemical experience in my body, the stomach I just didn’t like, you know. So, I had really bad visions because I have had a really bad childhood. My whole beginning of my life was hell.

I was in hell. I was born in fight or flight during the war in Poland, when Hitler was bombing Poland, my mother and I walked for a year and a half in the winter, and it was really horrible experiences, bombings and dead people. And what I experienced up to the age of seven, no child should experience. So, I was already weird and twisted, you know, from that whole experience.

And so, I thought drugs would help me, you know, But and they did, you know. But the thing is, then I had this experience that was really horrible with acid, and I’ve never done it again. I met these Native Americans that were in the desert and don’t ask me where somewhere they get- I was with them for a weekend, and they gave me peyote and they told me to go home and fast for three days and then take the peyote and be in nature.

And I said, okay, so I’m fasting for three days. I took the peyote. I get a call from my friend Isaac Tigrett, you know, the guy who did the Hard Rock and Rock Brynner, and they said, ‘Come, we’re having a dinner in Laurel Canyon’. And I’d just taken it and I’d fasted for three days. So, I said, okay, I can still drive.

So, I drove over, and I sat down, and somebody dropped some white powder on my dress. And in those days, we were all mad. I just licked it off my dress and we figured I must have taken 30 hits of lysergic acid, you know, the microscopic. It was in a powder form. And I went, I mean, after fasting and three peyote buttons, I went into such a state that the dogs in the house started howling and running through the house.

They picked up all my energy, they left the house, they put the dogs out in the yard. I went into the bathroom and my hair had turned into snakes. So, I opened drawers. I found a pair of scissors and when I came out, I cut off all the snakes. So, my hair was now, you know, like all different lengths.

And I went into a coma for seven hours. Now, my friends, there were about eleven people there, I guess, and a lot of them were musicians. And they’d had a guy from the band Uriah Heep that this had happened to, and they called the paramedics, and they gave him that shot they give you when they’re trying to revive you.

And he never came back. He stayed in an altered state and just was in a mental institute just rocking back and forth, you know, just so they decided not to do anything. They didn’t know what to do. They were freaked out. After seven hours, I woke up, they brought me into the living room, and I sat in an easy chair, and I looked in the fireplace and it looked like the City of Oz.

It was all green crystals. And I and I looked at the people sitting on each side of the living room that were sitting there waiting to see what I was going to say. And they told me all I did was sit in the chair for another 4 hours saying, ‘Now I understand’. That’s all I said. And they said, ‘Oh my God, she’s got a nine, a five-year-old at home, her husband’s going to kill us’ – you know. And it took me a while to regain my senses. Thank God I had a roommate who had a son the same age as Michael. So, she kind of took over. It took me about a couple of weeks to like, It’s a miracle I’m alive. 

Jon Reiss

Yeah. 

Doris La Frenais

Really. 

Jon Reiss 

Yeah. Drug combinations are often not the greatest thing in the world. 

 Doris La Frenais

 And I’ve never combined drugs since then.

Jon Reiss

Yeah. 

Doris La Frenais

I’ve done each drug separately, but very well. Yeah. And so, I never do it. After that, I completely stopped psychedelics. I continued doing heroin for a while and that didn’t go very well. I wound up in jail three times, six treatment centers, three mental institutes. And then when I quit that, I had no choice. I ripped a lung- so that was serious. They told me, ‘if you ever do that again’, I was chasing the dragon. 

Jon Reiss 

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

When you’re chasing the dragon, you’re actually inhaling the- the black smoke from the tin foil with the heroin is running up and down. That’s why you’re chasing. And when ripped my lung, I quit that and then I switched over to cocaine.

Jon Reiss

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

And that was the worst. Ate away the middle of my nose, took all my teeth out on the left side. And I’m very excessive. I like going to the-  either to the bottom of the foot, or to the height of everything. And then I quit that and- and then I started getting more into a spiritual phase. But I’d already been in the spiritual phase.

My son, I was raising him as a macrobiotic. I was learning Chinese medicine. I studied acupressure, acupuncture, I studied reflexology, massage. I was doing that while I was doing the drugs. And so, my son never missed a day of school. And Ian has never been in the hospital because of even though I was on this journey of destroying myself.

But so, then I quit, and I they told me I could never do coke again and never do heroin again. So, I switched over to pot and wine and then nobody could ever talk to me in the evening because I smoked pot and had a glass of wine, and I became completely illiterate. So, when we had a dinner party, nobody wanted to sit next to me because I made no sense ever.

This went on for a year and a half, and then I finally quit that. And it happened because I read a book by Wayne Dyer, and I was in the middle of doing my ritual. I was staying in the south of France with Dave Stewart, and we were on vacation for three months there. And every night I’d go up to my room and do my smoking pot and- and then I’d go down and drink.

I have a bottle of wine and I wouldn’t eat at night because I wanted to keep the buzz going. And so, one day in the middle of the Wayne Dyer book, the pot was tasting so horrible I couldn’t do it anymore. And I completely quit on my nephew’s birthday. I remember is August the 14th and I could never smoke and do pot again. And that was the end of it. 

Jon Reiss 

Do you think part of it was the Wayne Dyer book? 

Doris La Frenais

You know, I don’t know what it was, but reading that book, it was the power of intention. It really affected me. It was really profound, and I really thank him for it. 

And then another experience I had that kept me off everything, was I went to Brazil and lived with the tribe naked for three weeks in the jungle, and that was my first ayahuasca experience. And I lived- they did it really properly. I went and we cut the vine and prayed to the vine and thank the vine. And I helped him pick the other herbs. And we were-

Jon Reiss

What year is this? 

Doris La Frenais

I was like 65, I think. I was a late quitter. And so, it was an experience that I’ll never forget. It was one of the most profound, not that I hated the ayahuasca experience, but I liked all the preliminary. They- I was naked with the tribe, and I was so white that they the women picked this fruit and they- they rubbed my body with it.

And I was pitch black when I woke up the next morning and I asked the shaman, ‘Why have you done this?’ He said, ‘So you wouldn’t leave until you accomplished what you came for.’ I came because I had an intense fear of the dark from the war in Poland and the air raids and going into a cellar and putting your head in the potatoes. And it was like, you know, that stays with you. 

Jon Reiss 

What do you mean by put your head in the potatoes?

Doris La Frenais

Well, we put our heads in the cellar in the potatoes in case the building collapsed on our heads. So, we all found little places and covered our heads with potatoes. And that was a terrible experience when you’re three years old. And so, I got tired of being afraid of the nighttime. So, I went there for that. 

Jon Reiss 

And how did just backing up, how did you find this tribe? 

Doris La Frenais

I did a what do you call it, a vision quest in San Diego with a woman, you know, where you go out with what you could carry. And- and when I told her my story, she said, ‘No, no, this is not going to be enough for you.’

I did it. You know, she said, ‘No, no, no. I know a shaman. He’s a sculptor, so he’s an artist. You’ll love him.’ She said, ‘I know him very well. I’m going to send you to Peru, to the rainforest.

Jon Reiss 

Peru or Brazil? 

Doris La Frenais

I went to Iquitos. Where is that? 

Jon Reiss 

That’s Peru. 

Doris La Frenais

Peru? 

Jon Reiss 

Yeah. 

Doris La Frenais 

So, she said, I’m sending you to Iquitos. And when I got there, I had to get into a hollow tree-  that the weird looking boat that they-

Jon Reiss

Like a dugout canoe?

Doris La Frenais

Dug out tree canoe. 

Jon Reiss 

Yeah. 

Doris La Frenais 

And we went up, it took hours and hours and then we had to walk into the forest and sleep in a flea-bitten village. I mean, with chickens in my room, you know, there’s no screens.

It was pretty- we walked for a day and a half to get to where I was going, and when I arrived, they were all naked and I didn’t want to be the only one not naked. So, I’ll talk about that experience because it was really the most wonderful experience of my life. I would say it was one of the most except giving birth to my son and meeting Ian and my first husband.

It was right in that echelon because when I got there, nobody could really speak English except the shaman spoke a little bit. So, it was just being in a love fest with these people. So, then the next day they gave me this stuff to eat and thank God I brought a toilet roll with me because the next day I had to wear it around my neck because every orifice of my body was expelling toxins.

It was this stuff. I can’t – Ojé think. Or some kind of thing. Because he could check all my- that’s how they checked instead of doing a blood test, he checked to see what kind of diseases I had by the toxins I was expelling, which is very interesting. And then we spent three out, three days in silence while he was chanting over the thing. I didn’t even really know about ayahuasca. People weren’t talking about ayahuasca yet.

Jon Reiss

So, he was like mixing or- 

Doris La Frenais

Preparing there. And then it has to brew for a while. So, they decided then to take me out- well, also this is funny because our toilet was an open log, and you needed a flashlight to make sure there wasn’t a tarantula on this little hole that you sat on.

And so, I decided to get them to put a plank of wood up in the tree because I didn’t want to sleep on the ground. There were too many snakes and tarantulas and things. So, I climbed up this tree naked every night and I put banana leaves around it. And I had my little I had the penthouse in the jungle.

And so, I was up there for about four days. And then they put me in a mosquito net that was about this high. I’d say, how many feet? Four feet high. And I was naked. They gave me a flashlight and I was a mile away from the from the village. I was alone and I was in a mosquito net.

This was getting through my fear, the dark, leaving me there. And I the first couple of days, I was awake all night and slept all day. So, they would whenever I was sleeping, I had three pots outside of the net. One was a water pot- one was a pee pot, and one was a pot of food. And the only thing I ever had to eat was white rice, popcorn and bananas, only water.

Jon Reiss

Popcorn?

Doris La Frenais

Well, they popped corn, and we had white rice and we had bananas. That was it. That was the main source of food, except when a guy came through the banana. The ice cream truck was a guy with a stock of papaya once in a while or mangoes. And so, it was amazing. I’m naked on my back like a cockroach with one flashlight, no toothbrush, no books, no, no, no entertainment whatsoever.

And they gave me the flashlight in case the tarantula got into my net at night. I could take care of it. And the fourth night I started getting in touch with the with the elements. Like I would listen to the sounds that started the first morning. And then by noon it was like Grand Central Station. And then it was the afternoon sounds and then the evening sounds.

And it was like clockwork, even the sounds. I knew what time it was by which insect was starting the crescendo. And I became so involved with the flow and it was perfect. It was, it was the same. It was so orderly. And I became completely part of nature. I was in heaven. I was it was like the biggest high. It was I can’t even explain it. 

Jon Reiss

That’s amazing. 

Doris La Frenais

It was the most profound experience of evolution in my life, was being part of nature like that. And I was in there for eight days and then I started hearing drumming and I could hear it go from our village to the next village to another village. And about eight days later they came and got me out of the net. And we walked for about 6 hours to another area and there was this- pieces of wood that made the frame of a house, and there was a Jewish star because that was ascending and descending.

You know, I mean, it was really fantastic. And I’m sitting there and all of a sudden, all these shamans arrived. That’s why they were drumming, because they were going to do the ceremony and they all came with their instruments and their staffs. And there was a little table with a white cloth and all the little cups of ayahuasca, and me being like I had a high drug tolerance in those days, because when they tried to put me to sleep for an operation, the doctor said it was like trying to put an elephant to sleep because I had such a high tolerance.

And so, I got in line and when it was my turn, I said, ‘well, I better take more than one of these because one isn’t gonna do it.’ So, I took three until somebody, the fourth one I was going to take, one of the shamans, he went, you know, ‘Slow down’. And so, and my brother was in another village somewhere else, and he came to this union.

So, he I’d seen him for the first time. So, he was across the bonfire from me. The reason I’m telling you this is for later on. And so, I, I what I experience with ayahuasca, I saw other dimensions, and this was at night, and I saw daylight, other tribes and but it didn’t create an evolution for me. My evolution was being alone in the net.

But, you know, I did do a lot of vomiting and excreting. I mean, that and it went on for 8 hours and it was it was hell. I’ve never done ayahuasca since then, and I don’t ever want to do it again. Maybe I should try just doing one. But it just I went a bit over the top. 

Jon Reiss 

So, when you were when you were purging, did you feel like that was a release?

Doris La Frenais

No, it was just it was horrible. And it was painful, and I didn’t like it. And I was nauseous the whole time. And I just thought, please let this be over. It was so exhausting, you know, because I’d taken too much. So, I had a super experience, which was not enjoyable at all. And I also was dancing, you know, because they were all playing their drums.

So, I started dancing like a wild woman around the bonfire. And I danced into the jungle. They thought I’d gone to go to the bathroom. They noticed I hadn’t come back after about 20 minutes and I was dancing into the jungle, into the night, and they found me and brought me back, thank God, because I would have been a goner.

And so, what happened after that, when my brother and I left, he said, ‘What were you doing?’ I said, ‘What do you mean? ‘He said, ‘There was this thing every time you got up and you did it about 15 times to run to the bathroom, you would there was this thing that was half animal and half man that you would bow down on your knees and bow down at least ten or twenty times’.

‘You’d get up and run to the bathroom, come back, bow again, sit down. And I tried to make eye contact with this entity that I saw. But it had its eyes on you. It was like it was obsessed with you’. And he said, ‘I could never get it to even look at me. It only looked at you’- so when we got home on my fireplace, George Harrison had given me a statue from the Krishna deities.

It was one of the gods. Varaha was his name. He was part of the Vishnu heritage. And Sammy said, ‘That was him. That was him- that he was guarding you’. And so I gave him the statue. But I mean, that’s pretty profound. 

Jon Reiss

You gave your brother the statue? 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, but I didn’t have a connection to it. And I thought he should have it. He was so excited about it. 

Jon Reiss

Well, it seems like you had a connection because you were bowing to him, and he was keeping an eye on you. 

Doris La Frenais

I know, but I figured since he’d seen him and I didn’t, I wanted to give him something and- and to remember the whole experience. But it was the most profound. It was. It was a wonderful experience, except for the ayahuasca.

Jon Reiss

So, you leave the jungle. Are you done being afraid of the dark afterwards? 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, because I wouldn’t have danced into the forest in the dark if I hadn’t. But it was that was pretty profound-

Jon Reiss 

So, did you only do one night when you’re in the jungle? 

Doris La Frenais

But do you know they prepared me for days. They did the Ojé. And then I had the eight or ten days in silence with nature.

I mean, you know, I don’t want to do it in a hotel or with a group of other people talking. And, you know, I mean, this was so profound. It was me and all these shamans. And having had a non-material life for- for three weeks before, I wish I had only taken one hit of it. 

Jon Reiss 

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

Because I probably would have eased into it. And I it was just too much after fasting for eight days to, you know, it just blew my gasket. 

Jon Reiss

Yeah. 

Doris La Frenais

And so, I don’t know how why I started this again. I’m trying to think when I had my first mushroom thing, gosh, 

Jon Reiss 

Is recent, within the last year, right? 

Doris La Frenais

No, no, because I was already doing mushrooms when I went to India a year ago because I took all the chocolate and got all my friends in India, and they were afraid for me traveling with them because they didn’t know what the deal was, if I got caught because I took like two of those big boxes with me to give out to all my friends. 

And so, I was already doing it then. But I wasn’t. I was only doing it when I went out at night there. Even when I go out and I know it’s an outside party, I like doing it when I’m outside or I like doing it when I’m with other people. I just feel such joy, you know? So- 

Jon Reiss 

How much do you take when-

Doris La Frenais

Well, you know, I’ve noticed I was taking a thousand milligrams, 

Jon Reiss

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

But I’ve noticed since. And then I decided to start microdosing because I know if you do that, it really shifts things. But I’ve noticed when since I’ve been microdosing, when I want to go out at night, and I take the normal set and I’m now up to 1,500.

Jon Reiss

Yeah. 

Doris La Frenais

Otherwise, I don’t. 

Jon Reiss 

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

But I can. Nobody knows. I’ve taken a dose. It’s not like I’m out of it or anything. I’m just colors are brighter and I’m joyful and I’m pretty joyful most of the time anyway. But. But I’m more joyful on the inside, you know? 

Jon Reiss 

Interesting. 

Doris La Frenais

And- and so that’s where I’m at right now. I really enjoy it.

Jon Reiss

When did you start microdosing? 

Doris La Frenais

I started microdosing about three weeks ago. 

Jon Reiss 

Oh, okay. 

Doris La Frenais

And then if I’m going to go out at night and I don’t go out much at night anymore, but if I’m going to go out at night, then I don’t microdose that day, 

Jon Reiss 

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

You know, 

Jon Reiss 

I sometimes if I’m going to do that, I won’t do it for a couple of days.

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, that’s what if I do the big dose that night, I should probably take a day off the next day. 

Jon Reiss

So, if you then when you started doing mushrooms again, did you do any bigger journeys or strictly like a hundred-

Doris La Frenais

I did one sacred journey, and you know, I really didn’t enjoy it. 

Jon Reiss

How many grams did you take? 

Doris La Frenais

Six thousand? No, seven thousand.

Jon Reiss

Seven thousand. Yeah. 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah. Usually, you’re supposed to only take four. 

Jon Reiss 

Yeah, 

Doris La Frenais

But I kept telling him I need more, I need more. And I threw up exactly three thousand, and went back to four. He noticed in the toilet all I threw up was the mushroom potion and- and I didn’t enjoy it that much. I really didn’t. 

Jon Reiss 

What was that like?

Doris La Frenais

It just. I didn’t get anything out of it. I didn’t change. Nothing changed my life. I didn’t want to do any. I’m going to do this and I’m going to do that. I’m going to start meditating in my puja room again. 

I prefer my little small. I love when I do the thousand five hundred and I go out- I love

if I’m at somebody’s house and they have art, everything is just so much more profound. And that to me is a lot more beneficial. I see nature, I see things I wouldn’t see normally, and I go out and hug all my trees and I talk to my flowers and, you know, and it’s wonderful. I don’t need to see-

I’ve seen enough geometric shapes with the acid and all this stuff I’ve done before. And, you know, and then I tried because I wanted my son. He was having problems and he started drinking because he was so depressed from the medication he became clinically -and so, I talked to someone, and they told me the most intense experience and the most and the quickest change is the toad, it only lasts 20 minutes. And it is intense. 

So, I tried that one afternoon from two to eight,  and I did six toads in one afternoon because I kept saying it’s not working. I didn’t feel anything. He said, ‘You’re not supposed to’. I said, ‘We have to do it again’. And then he had to wait for 2 hours. He said, ‘I can’t do it again, you’ve done four’. And then I did two more. And I tell you, that was a shift. The next day, oh my God, that was a real shift. 

Jon Reiss 

You said the first five times you didn’t feel anything? 

Doris La Frenais 

No, the first four times. 

Jon Reiss 

First four times. 

Doris La Frenais

Finally, after the fourth time we had a two-hour break, he said, ‘You got to give your body a rest’. And then we did two more times. He said, ‘I’m leaving. I’m not doing because I don’t want anything to happen to you’. So, I didn’t do it again. And I went down and had a normal evening and the next day-

Jon Reiss 

So, you didn’t have any visions you didn’t like-

Doris La Frenais

No, no, you don’t have any. What happens when you take that, you are catapulted into the quantum field, and you’re gone. 

Jon Reiss

So, you did feel that? You did go into the quantum…

Doris La Frenais

Well, you don’t feel anything. I just knew I went. But you don’t remember anything. It’s like dying and being reborn. When you’re reborn, you don’t remember anything about where you’ve just been. 

Jon Reiss 

But did you have that dying and reborn feeling reborn six times or only twice or once?

Doris La Frenais

You’re gone six times, but you don’t feel anything. And I kept saying I was expecting to at least see something once, so I was waiting for a glimpse of something, you know? And what happens there is the quantum field knows why you’re there, because it’s all knowledge, so it knows why you’re there and it does what it needs to do.

So, what happened was my guide gave me a fizz because I was leaving for India a week later, three days later, and he said, ‘Try this and if you like this, I’ll give you this to take to, to India with you’. So, he gave it to me. I didn’t know it was a thousand milligrams. So, the next day since I was leaving and I wanted to tell him whether I wanted to try it, I got up in the morning, Ian and I were going on our walk and I said, ‘Oh wait, Ian’, and I put it in water and I just drank it all down.

And we went on our walk in Santa Monica, and after about 10 minutes I said, ‘Oh my God, Ian, I have to go home’. And I didn’t want to tell him what I’d done because he would have been really upset that I was stupid enough to take something like that. I thought I needed to try it so I could see, but the guy didn’t know I was going to do it after the day, the morning after I’d done the six toads. 

So, I was so tripping. Ian said, ‘Well, can’t we finish our-”. I said, ‘No, no, I feel really nauseous’. I was feeling really weird. I said, ‘I’ve got to go home right away’. And when we got home, I said, ‘Okay, I’m going to bed and leave me alone. Go away. Go out of the bedroom’. 

I was so out of it. I called my Shaman and I said, ‘What is happening?’ He said, ‘Oh my God, you took the thousand milligrams the day after you did the six toads’. He said, ‘You’re on a full-‘. I said, ‘How long is this going to last? I’m leaving in two days. I’ve got to shopping, I have to pack. I have-‘. He said, ‘You’re in for at least three or four hours, so just stay in bed and enjoy it. Don’t fight it’. 

So, this was a really good experience. Okay. I’ll tell you, I put my big, expensive headphones on, put my binaural sounds on, and I just and Ian came in and I said, ‘You’ve got to leave. Don’t come in the bedroom again,’ because I didn’t want him to know what I’d done. He would have been really annoyed with me. 

And so, I’m lying there talking to the mushroom, saying, ‘Please teach me something, show me what you have to offer me and show me how I can change things in my life’. And all of a sudden, I had this vision of this man on my right side, this hulk of a man.

He never turned around. He was just grunting and groaning, and he just walked out of my peripheral eyesight. Then I had a I had a woman’s face in front of me that morphed into fifty different faces and then disappeared. Then I had another thing that horrible snarling and- and I realized that these were all demons that were coming out of me.

And I said to her, I said to all of them, I said, ‘Look, I’m so- I can’t have you in my- I can’t have you be part of my experience, and have you use my body for drugs or any other things that you’ve been using me for all these years. But I need to because I’m now going into another field of healing science, somatics, all that,’ and I said, ‘I hope you go to the light. I send you all away with love.’ 

And you know, I was loving, and kind and I had this experience of such a release that time. It was really profound. And I was in a state like that for about four months. 

Jon Reiss

Wow. Four months after this.

Doris La Frenais

Afterwards I went to India and I only microdosed when I in Mumbai, when I saw my friends and then I went to do panchakarma. I never use any psychedelics through all the panch, but it was a cleansing and that kind of knocked me off my center. 

Jon Reiss

The panchakarma did? 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, because I wasn’t allowed to exercise. I completely my diet was completely changed. I couldn’t eat any raw, which I do a lot. I had to eat three times a day. It was it changed so much that it because I’ve had eating disorders most of my life too, bulimic and anorexia and that all came from my childhood.

And so, it just totally knocked me off my perch again in a way. So, when I came back, that’s when I decided to try and get that stability back again. It was the most stable I had been for a while. And so that’s when I started trying to microdose and- and that’s where I’m at right now. 

Jon Reiss 

So do you think that the experience that you had this recent shift with was the day after you did the six toads and then the next day had-

Doris La Frenais

A thousand grams of that fizz was a- 

Jon Reiss 

Thousand milligrams. 

Doris La Frenais

Thousand milligrams. 

Jon Reiss

Yeah. And so, do you think you might have had that same shift without the thousand grams, or it was a combination of the two? 

Doris La Frenais

It was the combination that gave me a full-on trip. I mean, it was a full, except this trip was so different because I was in control, and I was able to actually- I didn’t have the geometric shapes.

I had a conversation with my mushroom guide, the Mother Earth, who had given me this gift. I was totally in in contact with the mushroom completely. I never had that experience with the mushroom. And I have a closer relationship-

Jon Reiss 

Except for the first time you had- 

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, the first time. But this was different. This was like the mushroom now is she is my mother. It is my mother. And I am thankful to her every day. I hug the trees. I’m hugging mother every day. I’m so much closer to nature since that experience, except the one I had, of course, in the jungle. You know, I wouldn’t mind going back to the jungle and doing that again one day too. 

Jon Reiss

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

But, you know, I want to have a few more adventures in my life before I leave the planet, because the end of my life, if my husband leaves the planet before me, I’m definitely going to shave my head and go into a cave.

I want to experience again being without any material possessions, living off whatever I can find and scavenge I, I want to have that nature experience again. In India, when a couple had no longer had children at home and the husband’s retired, what they did is they gave up all their material possessions and they would go together into the forest and live in the forest.

And Ian said, ‘Well, if you expect me to do that with you, I have to take a lifetime supply of wine with me. Good wine with me, otherwise I’m not going’. But the thing is, that’s something I want to definitely do without drugs. 

Jon Reiss 

Right. 

Doris La Frenais

You know, I want to have- and I have an opportunity to have an experience. I’m waiting for this guide to come back out of the hills or the cave he’s in. And there’s six Tamil Siddha Masters left in the world. And they came from a civilization that the British and the English were excavating in Tamil Nadu, where my ashram is, and they found a city that dated back to 3,500 years before Christ.

And it was a city that had irrigation and they had libraries, everything. They had even had electricity of some sort, and they had a language that they still haven’t been able to decipher. But anyway, so the healers at that period were called Siddha Masters and they could push a Varma point on your body that would completely you would be completely catatonic, you wouldn’t be able to move.

So, to become a master, you had to give 12 years of your life to this healer. And they only took one pupil at a time. And then you had to be totally free of your ego and very humble before they gave you that gift, because it’s a very dangerous gift to have. And there’s still six of those left in in the world.

And one of them, a yogi friend of mine, knows. And she told me when I’m in India this time if she can find him. And I said, ‘Well, how much money should I take?’ She said, ‘They don’t take money. They don’t work like that’. And I said, ‘Does he speak English?’ ‘No, he doesn’t, but you don’t need to because he knows he doesn’t need to speak to you and what you going to get from him. But you will have to live on the floor with bugs and you know, there will be no wi-fi.’

And Ian’s freaking out about me doing this. But the first chance I have, that is the only interest I have now is reading books about masters I’m interested in. And I want to have some more experiences like alone with nature and- and experiencing that, and a part of that will be continuing with psychedelics because, you know, Pythagoras, all of them, they all healed with sound and light.

We are we come from the light. We are the light. We go back to the light and the school mystery schools of Egypt and Greece. They only use sound and light for healing. And we’re actually going back to that because it’s working. I’ve experienced it. It’s insane. And so, you know, that’s-

Jon Reiss 

Perhaps because sound and light operates on frequency.

Doris La Frenais

Well, we are from sound, we are energy, and we are from the big bang with this, which is sound and the sound around us. You to be very careful about the sounds you have. And music is a great sound. So, I’m this is my path and I’m enjoying every minute. 

Jon Reiss 

And just to finish up, do you see a relationship between the psychedelics and the sound and light healing?

Doris La Frenais

Yeah, I’m going to continue. All of it merges. They all use that in Egypt and Greece. They use the psychedelics for spiritual evolution. You know, it helped them evolve. I mean, you know, 

Jon Reiss 

On my recent journey, I really I one of the experiences I have is that, you know, because I meditate a lot, but I don’t often go deep while I’m meditating and it’s, you know, but when I was on my journey is like, this is probably how people feel who meditate and can go deep without psychedelics, and, you know, I just happened to need them to have that experience.  

Doris La Frenais

Well, I’ve had a lot of body experiences, too, with my meditation. I meditate every morning, every evening, and in the middle of the afternoon I take out a half an hour, an hour. I put on the binaural sounds because you should start doing that. You have to get a really good pair of headphones and these sounds when you hear them and a thing like that.

What it does, it reorganizes the neurons, the brain activity, and it’s it heals all the cells in your body. So that’s a really- I’m very lucky to have the opportunity and the time to do this, you know? 

Jon Reiss 

Yeah, 

Doris La Frenais 

I thank my beautiful husband for giving-  working hard so I don’t have to work. You know, I can do all the creative things I want to experience. I’ve been really blessed. So, there you go. 

Jon Reiss

Great. Well, thank you so much, Doris. You were very engaging. 

Doris La Frenais 

Well, it’s easy and I trust you. And it’s easy to talk to you. And we’ve been friends for a long time. 

Jon Reiss 

Right. 

Doris La Frenais 

You know, I hope I haven’t shocked anyone with my past, you know.

Jon Reiss

I don’t think so.

Doris La Frenais

With all the other drugs, they all, you know, at all, you move to L.A., and it was the 70s, 80s and 90s, and there was no way out of it. You know, especially when you’re hanging out with the Rolling Stones. 

Jon Reiss

Right. Exactly.